First off i just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped me at my first STT event on monday at ACC. this is my second year doing track days i have about 5 under my belt so anyway ive noticed this season that i have been having a tougher time with my right turns, i have always been better at lefts but this year i would say its like my right turns have actually gotten worse. im not sure if this has anything to do with being right handed, or that i have some type of mental block because i lowsided last year on a right turn. or because i crashed pretty hard on my right knee this spring on my dirt bike and now my body position is just messed up bc its still somewhat limited in range of motion. my bike can track lean angles and im consistently getting 56-58 degrees on my lefts and im getting around 50-51 on my rights this seems like a pretty high variance from one side to the other. anyway i was hopping to pick your guys brains about it now as i get ready to go to black hawk this sunday and then i can ask a staff member/ or someone who is experienced enough to shadow me for a few laps and see if they can point out anything from my body position and give me some things to work on. Thanks, The Dr.
You're going to have a problem with your lefts too if you keep carrying 58 degrees of lean angle. Get off the bike more before you crash!!!
I don't mean to sound condescending or anything like that, so don't take it that way...but they teach you why on the very first day of novice. There is a limit to how much lean angle a tire can handle...and 58 degrees is crazy close to the limit. If you want to go faster you eventually have to start transferring weight to the inside of the turn to REDUCE the lean angle. You do this by hanging off.
i just ask because an instructor in a different group that i started with in new york told me basically the opposite that i was getting off of the bike to much and that bigger guys like myself 210ish lbs dont need to waste the energy shifting around so much on the bike and that it can actually have more of a negative effect by upsetting the suspension which is why i wanted a second opinion from an instructor or more experienced rider than myself.
The way I think of it is: To go faster around a corner you need to either (1) hang off (2) add lean angle (3) do both. At some point you run out of lean angle, or can't hang off any more, so the only way to get faster is to combine both. Dial back the lean angle and hang off more and you can go the same speed or faster.
Funny, as I finally had the gumption to ask this same question this past weekend at Autobahn. What group were you in btw? I am currently a man of exceptional girth and so I asked the group lead if I needed to lean as much. His response made perfect sense and, intuitively you're going to know the truth of it when you hear it I suspect. In a straight-away, with well, let's call it 'extra mass', you (and me) are at a disadvantage on acceleration and braking. The bike has to pull more than is ideal, and the brakes have to stop more than is ideal. But in the turns, you actually have a potential advanage (fitness level aside). Because of extra mass, you can lean off and keep the bike more upright. A smaller rider will not be as able to affect the bike's center of gravity as easily and so must lean the bike more than you (and I) would. This means, in theory, you can go faster through the turns as your bike will be more upright which means greater conact patch which means you can use more throttle. As far as your suspension being disturbed by the shifting of mass, I don't have as much to say except, yeah, I guess I can see that but be smooth in the shifting (of weight, not gears). That may put some stress on knees perhaps, I know it does for me at times. If your bike's suspension is properly tuned for your weight then I don't really see how this would be a riding issue. If you've not had your suspension tuned then I highly recommend it. You may even need stronger springs. It might make a huge difference for you. At the very least, having it looked at will give you the confidence that it is properly set.
"If you've not had your suspension tuned then I highly recommend it." ^^^ Can't emphasize that enough. Never thought it would make that big of a difference for me as I didn't think I was riding at a level to make a difference. But I went ahead and had my front forks redone with new springs, etc over last winter and it made a HUGE difference. Enough of a difference that it helped me go from mid pack I to A. It's a world of difference on a bike that is planted and stable especially going into corners.
Years ago I struggled with right handers vs. left handers and didn't know why. I suspected that it might be a mental thing related to when I lowsided on the street a few years earlier at approx. 85 mph and got a helicopter ride to the critical care unit of a hospital. I finally got tired of it and decided to figure it out (I guess I was too determined to ask an Instructor for help). So, which track am I going to when I try to figure this out..........Little Tally......home of the One right turn for the whole course! Duh! So what I did..... 1. First of all, I slowed my laps times down probably 10 to 15% so that I could really pay close attention and make mental notes of what I was doing correct in the left hand turns. 2. I made mental notes of hand grip position on the bars, body position on the bike, foot position on the pegs, entrance speeds, and finally....where my head/eyes were looking as I was going through the corner. The bottom line for me was that my body position was OK, grip on the bars was OK, foot position was OK, but my eyes were looking about 30 feet in front of where I was........not far enough. On the very next lap when I got to turn 3 (the right hander), it was so much easier and smoother and natural feeling for me. I just couldn't believe that something so simply had caused me so much grief for so long. Anyway, that's what worked for me, so you might want to try the same thing and do a mental checklist as you are circulating on the track and see if you are doing something in the left hand turns that you aren't doing in the right hand turns.
Right that all makes sense to me as far as my suspension goes it's all electronic so not much tunnin go can do there but it feels good no complaints
Not my first track day..... And I don't appreciate the sarcasm I posted bc I was looking for some advice. -_-
I will definitely try that this weekend at black hawk any chance you are going to be there I'll be starting in intermediate but depending on how the day goes I may ask to get evaluated/ bumped to advanced
I think he was just doing some friendly ribbing. I thought you were a Novice rider till your recent posts, so I also thought your lean angle was exagerated. My mistake but, I don't think he meant anything by it.
Are you kidding me? You've done 5 track days. You have questions about basic fundamentals. You're thinking about making the leap to advanced? Do you have any idea what it takes to run in advanced?
Lol please calm down I'm sure there are advanced riders out there who do not have perfect form and who need to improve but they still get around just fine i was riding with a guy who usually rides advanced last weekend but was riding intermediate because he didn't have a ton of track time this year and he was the one who suggested the idea to me and yes I do have an idea of what it takes no I don't expect to be the fastest guy out there I don't even even expect to be close to the fastest guy in advanced but I would say it's up to the instructor to decide where he thinks my skill range falls
My thoughts on bumping up too early can be summarized with this: Sometimes you need to let your experience "catch up" with your riding ability.... i.e. more time in the saddle in the present group. I'm NOT saying this applies to you Drsteven, but then again I've never ridden on the track with you and don't have any idea of your riding skills OR experience...other than you are fairly new to the track day experience. I will not be at Blackhawk this weekend, but let me assure you the the Northern Region of STT staff is lippin' full of talented, knowledgeable, and experienced coaches that can work with you. The talent in this organization runs very, very deep and they/we all love working with folks to help them improve their riding skills.
I don't need to calm down. I'm not mad. I'm just worried about you. Judging by your avatar, your body position needs a lot of work. Advanced is not a place for working on body position. Seriously. Nobody in advanced is working on body position. That is Novice group 1.
Skills aside, as you've indicated an interest in Advanced, are you aware of the bike prep restrictions required of Advanced riders? In case you are bumped, didn't want you to be held back due to these requirements. If uncertain, requirements are listed on STT's website in FAQ section. Good luck! looks like a nice weekend to ride.