At Grattan on Sunday in the Novice group, the instructor John spoke about clutch-less downshifting which seamed odd to me. While I have done it on the street to see how it works, its not a practice I ever thought of doing on the track, pulling the clutch in during heavy braking doesn't seam to upset the bike much so I'm not sold on the benefit (unlike clutch-less up shifting which makes things much smoother). How many of you do clutch less downshifting (Not including the bike that do it for you...). I didn't have the courage to attempt this Sunday but thought about it quite a bit on my way home. Thanks, BGroup
I pull the clutch in briefly for all downshifts. Hell, I still rev match most of the time out of old habit. My view in order of equipment for down shifts would be this: 1) Old School bike with no slipper - clutch and rev match 2) Slipper with cable throttles - quick clutch with downshift 3) New school slipper and electronic throttles and two-way shift sensor - bang away, ignore the clutch You can probably do it with 2) and have no issues as long as you have a robust transmission and a well tuned slipper. My Kawi (which is slipper and cable throttles) has a delicate transmission so I'm clutching the downshifts. As I'm already braking hard with the front, any time lost clutching the downshifts is very small, and any potential equipment damage is very big in my view. Don't keep the clutch pulled while braking if that is what you are doing. The engine braking helps, especially with trail braking. Matt
Been doing clutchless up and down on my YZF750R for years. 94K miles, no trans issues. Its NOT recommended to do unless you are absolutely sure of how to match rpms. Sometimes I do slightly grab the clutch lever but with a hydraulic clutch, its not really pushing the clutch rod a lot. Reminds me, I really need to get the carbs on it fixed and get it started. Been putting that off for a few years.
+1 on sensitive transmissions... I just do it where it makes sense. Between Turn 5 and 5a I like to take a gear but there's a lot of pulling on the bars already during that right to left flip flop, so I just blip and downshift. The bike likes it better than clutched for some reason, stays more stable, so I make it work there. Otherwise, I need to protect that lightweight Kawi bamboo and balsa transmission with the clutch.
Awesome, thanks for the replies... I wasn't even considering the transmission, where I'm more smooth with up-shifts on the road... clutchless down shifts tend to get the bike more outta shape than an old fashion rev match... maybe I'm doing it wrong. My track bike has a slipper, so maybe I'll try it on a slower lap to see what I think. Cheers
Same. This is my first bike with a slipper clutch but I still blip out of ingrained habit and feed the clutch out using engine braking.
While upshifts are fine, unless you are rpm matching for the lower gear, downshifting is not great on your transmission. Better to briefly use the clutch and blip the throttle to get it to match than to try and jam it. Was that instructor talking about a bike that has a Quckshifter that allows up and down?
IMO I’ve got to think clutchless downshifts would be hard on the transmission. All the energy that was being absorbed by the clutch is now transferred to the internal gears. Anyway I found an old poll on the Wera racing page. 94% used the clutch for downshift. I’d highly recommend you learn how to use the clutch properly & blip to rev match for a downshifts especially if you don’t have a slipper clutch. Here’s the link. http://forums.13x.com/index.php?threads/poll-do-you-use-the-clutch-on-down-shifts.119336/
I have always used the clutch + blip (other than my s1000RR)... It was John's first time teaching the course, he was a bit nervous... could be he slipped up and talked about clutch less downshifting rather than up shifting.
my 2 cents, being smooth and getting faster is enough of a challenge that throwing clutchless downshifting in the mix is probably not something that is necessary unless you are trying to eak out those last tenths of a second. IMO just working on the fundamentals (being smooth, body position, line etc) is the key and I would keep the focus on those areas. There is enough to think about as you learn and start picking up speed, that dealing with not clutching could be noise you don't need in your head. To each his own though, lots of guys do it and lots of guys dont.
its all bike dependent, some bikes you can get away with it.. others I wouldn't attempt ever... personally the only time I would and DO use clutchless downshifting is on bikes that are equipped with autoblip systems that allow you to always do it safely. I personally like the systems though I believe less is better when learning . I believe that it is best to learn how to manually use your machine in case a system like that fails then you know what to do and still ride at a higher level... electronics and other systems are amazing but to a point they are a hinderance take an r1 with lean angle traction control and a newer rider that is using the traction control to save his poor throttle control on exits from sending him to the moon. its hard to tell a rider what they are doing wrong an how to correct it when the bike is doing the work they cant feel