I happened to do one yesterday out of necessity when I was in way too high a gear and didn't have time to reach for the clutch lever... and it went surprisingly smooth. I liked it. Is there any reason not to do it all the time? In theory I don't see how it'd be any harder on the trans than clutchless upshifts since it's just the opposite (blip the throttle on decel to unload the dog while applying a little pressure to the shifter), but theory has a funny of not jiving with reality all the time so I figured I'd ask before I made a habit out of it. I know a lot of the latest, greatest bikes have computers that do it for you, but for all I know their gearboxes may also have some engineering built into them as well.
I've been doing clutch-less up and downshifting all of my riding life, 40+ years and have never had any problems with broken gears or bent shift forks. It's all about being smooth. Hamfisted/footed people are the ones who experience problems.
ive done it driving threw town a quite a few times with little issues but i do a quick shifter that works up and down. Doing it at a higher rpm can break the rear lose had that happen a few times too. Not sure I would wanna try it at 10 or 11k rpm doing over 80mph with out and auto blipper tho... no idea if its bad for the tranny or not
Clutch for me... But I do all my down shifts at once though then just slip out the clutch till the rear starts to slide for me.
I have a couple friends who never use the clutch for downshifts, and get around the track at an upper A pace. If done properly I don't really see a problem with it, but why would you want to dispose of one of the most useful tools available to you on the bike, the clutch? Can be used for so much more than just down shifting.
I look at it more as adding a tool than disposing of one. The clutch lever will still be there to use whenever I need/want. It's a 15 ZX-6R with a slipper clutch. I figure it won't make any difference while going down through the gears at the end of a straight, but it could make life easier if I need to grab a quick downshift in the middle of a transition. I don't like reaching for the clutch while countersteering, and because it's faster, it'd make it easier to nail the shift when the bike was straight up and down while flipping it from one side to the other.
clutchless upshifting and down shifting are beautiful! When they work perfectly. When they don't. You're out of control. Being in control is key. I must have been a dirt biker in a previous life. I am ALWAYS using the clutch for something. Keeping RPM's up when I'm in the wrong gear. Smoothing out upshifts when the quick shifter isn't just perfect. Down shifting. Covering that little lever has saved my ass soooooo many times. The clutch can do so much more then just disengage the plates to allow shifting. It has a lot of value if you really choose to embrace it as a tool in your arsenal. I typically won't use the clutch to downshift when I need to throw a hand up to signal or when doing coaching signals. But at pace and trying to do my best. I'm always on that lever.
All shift forks disagree with clutchless down shifting.... I dont think I know of anyone who clutchless downshifts. The moto america guys dont. They are pretty dam fast.
Why is clutchless downshifting any harder on the shift forks than clutchless upshifting? (Not disputing, genuinely curious) With the dogs unloaded, it doesn't seem to take any more force on the shifter to go down than it does to go up.
In between transitions is one of the places I use the clutch the most. so many useful ways to utilize the clutch. Also, going down through the gears, going into T1, you can manipulate the clutch to calm and steady the bike. Like I said, the clutch is one of the most underutilized tools on the bike. IMO
Because to unload it when you're trying to downshift means blipping the throttle. Blipping the throttle with the clutch engaged means you're going to jolt forward a bit...and if you're trying to downshift I'm guessing you're also braking, so I don't see why you'd want to jolt the bike forward with a throttle blip as your braking hard into a turn. Also if you're talking about smooth downshifts during a transition like a chicane, I don't see how that would make it any easier or smoother. I would certainly use the clutch then because by having that bit of control you can make it really smooth. Even with my aftermarket STM slipper clutch on my zx6r, I still use the clutch a lot, not just to downshift but to make my corner entry that much smoother so I don't unsettle the bike during a hard braking/downshift maneuver going into a turn.