I was hoping to get some insight from an instructor or experienced racer as to what a person should do when the brakes go out. This is something that scares the heck out of me. It actually happened to me at the end of the main straight at Arizona Motorsports Park and I tried to manage it by standing up on the pegs trying to ride it out but I saw a fence coming, panicked and grabbed the front brake. At this point the front wheel sunk like a fishing weight into the sandy soil and I went down hard. Should a person try to make the corner anyway and likely low side instead? What about avoiding a rider in front of you? I would have felt horrible if I'd taken someone else out. I guess this is primarily a big issue at the end of long straights in hard braking zones and I suppose the guys on twins could probably just use engine braking. Any sort of insightful to do list or recommendation is appreciated. Thanks.
Why did your brakes go out? and was it your front brakes? and than it locked on the grass? I try and keep my brakes well above required maintenance never run pads lower than 30% new fluid every year with a flush.
Not an instructor or experienced racer, just a schmuck who's good at crashing. I had this happen once at the end of a straight, the lever just went straight to the bar (I had been an idiot and ignored worsening brake fade over the last three laps) and I thought "well here I go." It was at Blackhawk which has about a mile of runoff at the end of the straight. There really wasn't time for me to think or react, though I'm sure a better and more experienced rider would have easily tapped the rear and just turned the thing. In retrospect, I'd try to take the corner no matter what. The way I see it is the results of trying to take the corner are either: 1. You make the corner 2. You lowside And if you hang with all of your might, a lowside is a lot shorter of a fall than anything nasty that could happen when you're upright.
I'm confused...you said your brakes went out, but then your front end dived once you grabbed the brakes (and probably locked up the wheel)...sounds like your brakes were working just fine, you just panicked. If you're at the end of a long straight and your front brakes do actually go out for some weird reason...you're pretty much screwed. There is not much you can do, aside from try to put yourself in a situation where you'll reduce damage once you crash. If possible put yourself on a line that reduces the likelihood of hitting a guardrail or something solid, lean the bike over into the turn as much as possible and crash yourself out on the low side once you're at that lean (less height to fall from). Aleix Espargaro showed a perfect example of that about 2 years ago if I remember well at the end of the back straight at Motegi. He leaned in the turn and just let himself go (at probably around 170+ mph at that point).
Yeah I can see how my post was contradictory. I was braking deeper and deeper into the turn and I had not noticed any brake fade. Then suddenly I grabbed the front brake but did not stop nor did I feel the front end dip like it should. There was still back pressure on the lever, I just was not slowing down. When I got into the dirt I tried again (big mistake) and that's when I crashed. That's about all I can tell you.
That's odd. Something was definitely wrong with your brakes then. That shouldn't happen. Focus on preventing that in the future, rather than what to do when it does happen, because like I said...usually there isn't much you can do when you realize your brakes aren't working.
I've thought about it and I think I'm going to use the first session of the day at the next trackday to mentally prepare for mechanical failures. False neutrals, bum brakes etc...Tires are cold I'm not going very fast anyway during that session. Then maybe do that during the first practice session of the day at any race weekends (if I ever get to race again that is Maybe just run through scenarios in my head.
I had my brakes completely fail coming out of the carousel into the chicane at Road America. I managed to stay on, but they had to bring in a crane to rebuild the tire wall before the next race. Bike took a bit of damage and so did my left foot and right hand. When I realized I was not going to make the corner I dumped it down as many gears as I could and jammed on the rear brakes. I tried to aim for the gap but was going too fast to get the correct angle. Manage to get it down to about 70mph before I hit the wall.
Ouch! It sucks they put those tires there, because if it wasn't for that you could've gone the way the cars go and skip the chicane and you would've made the fast right hander onto Kettle Bottoms. Any idea what happened to your brakes? What was the cause of failure? That's always been one of my biggest fears.
This all sounds like what can happen after a tankslapper. The pads get push back in and you have to pump them back out once or twice. Don't ask how I know this.
if you grab brake and no slow release grab again. if you high speed into turn one with no brake still pull you parachute......all kidding aside down shift rear brake if theres no run off try scrub speed commit and pray for a lowside.
His body language was so obvious... "Well shit... that doesn't work, Time to get off and grab the B bike"
But but...Brad Pitt told me to "stay on the bike" in the Hitting the Apex documentary. Clearly Espargaro hasn't seen that show! He obviously wasn't going to be bothered by a crash at over 150 mph, and was just frustrated that he couldn't finish the lap!
A cool guy once told me that "The Really Fast Guys" are the ones that brake the hardest and latest. The ones that get on the gas the earliest and stay on the gas the longest. After thinking about this for a few, I realized "The Really Fast Guys" are the ones that do the least amount of braking and get on the gas as hard as they can and as early as they can.
I was running an endurance race at Hallett back in the mid '90's on a Honda CBR600 when I had the front brakes lock up. I was the second rider out and had just put in three or four laps and was settling into a good rhythm and starting to relax. Flying down the front straight in 5th gear and heading to the second gear Turn 1 left hander, I grabbed a fist full of brakes and just as I was about to tip her in, the front wheel went to full lock. Threw me over the handle bars and as my helmet crashed through the windscreen and I saw the number plate upside down I remember saying to myself..."this ain't going to be good!". Sure enough, I landed in front of the bike and the bike continued to chase me all the way until we stopped. I remember I had to keep kicking the swing arm and bike away to keep the still spinning rear tire off me. And this was way before the days of required chain guards! On inspection, we had installed an incorrect bolt holding the right caliper (in those days the calipers were attached axially) that was a quarter inch too long and, just my luck, as the pads wore down a bit, the bolt contacted the brake rotor and melted onto the brake rotor and welded to a brake pad right when I was on maximum braking going into turn one. Ooops. Damn. F**k. I guess the point is...equipment failure can and does happen. Usually, if it is a catastrophic, sudden type failure, you are just along for the ride and hoping the racing Gods are on your side that day. Regarding no brakes (as opposed to locked brakes) going into a turn, first thing is to give her a couple of quick pumps on the lever. If that doesn't work, I would certainly opt to lean her over on her side and hope you make the turn. You can scrub off a lot of speed leaned over. And a low side crash at slow speed is almost always better than any high side. An exception to trying to make the turn would be if there was plenty of run off... then you might be able save a crash by using the rear brake or coasting to a stop. It has been my all to frequent experience that front brakes applied in the grass after running off the race track almost always leads to a locked front wheel and then a toss on your head and/or shoulder. Too much adrenaline to judge the lack of traction or something. I would opt for the low side unless pretty dang sure of the run off area.