Funny you mentioned MCRA paul, as I was just about to mention an example of on-track contact. It was the day I did my racing school to be able to get my racing license and I did it with MCRA at HPT. They make all the students from that class ride in "I" group. It was also my first time ever at that track. The organization there was a mess. And it seemed like half of the people in I group were MotoGP wannabees. It was like that was their first time organizing a track day/racing event. They almost dismissed us from the riders meeting without even going over the flags!! The guy was almost out the door when he remembered about the flags! lol....anyway, during one of the sessions, an control rider passed me around the outside of a turn, and instead of keeping his line and staying on the inside for the next turn, he sweeped all the way across in front of me and clipped my front wheel with his rear wheel. We both wobbled a bit, especially me since I almost lost the front and I was on a liter bike, but neither of us went down thankfully and we both made the next turn. I was pretty pissed about it, because it was just a bonehead, poorly executed pass, and an experienced control rider that's also older, should have known better. But he did find me in the paddock later and apologized for it, so at least that was good.
STT did a great job at all the events I've been too (all of them at Road America). Considering the large sized events they have and being probably the biggest track day company in the US, the way they organize and manage their events is top notch! However, being asked to leave if you cause a crash, even if it's an honest mistake is a bit harsh. I could somewhat understand if they say, you're done for the day, you're not riding anymore...but being asked to actually leave the track or else they call the county sheriff would be a dick move. All the RA events I've been to I carpooled/trailer-pooled with other people. If I was asked to leave, then where would I go?? Seems a bit harsh to me, and I don't recall this rule/punishment ever mentioned in a riders' meeting. Hope that doesn't happen to anyone. Everyone that's on track should hopefully understand the risks and consequences involved, and if an unfortunate incident happens, I would hope it can be resolved with respect between the riders involved, without even the need for the staff members. I've only ever seen an incident like that once (track days, not racing) so far where a guy passed another guy and clipped him because he was a bit too close, and the guy crashed. The passer, apologized to him multiple times, and it was an honest mistake. Of course the other guy wasn't happy about it, and had to spend some money to fix his bike, but he was ok and they both moved on. No hard feelings. Same guy also rode someone else's bike during a track day and crashed it. He paid for all the damages.
For what its worth MCRA actually never managed the track days at HPT. Heartland Park itself actually hosted and managed those track days with their own control riders, so if it was an unorganized clusterf*** I wouldn't point the finger at MCRA. The only thing MCRA did at those events was offer the race clinic with an instructor and managed the races themselves.
Fist of all - thank you for the kind words. We do work very hard to have organized events, and as you can imagine, it is a lot of work. I should probably clarify what I said before about someone being asked to leave if they cause an incident - I didn't really word that correctly. Obviously, every situation is different with the severity of the incident, and the parties involved, so not every time would I eject someone from an event: it's a sliding scale that can lead up to that. A lot of times something can happen, and a rider can apologize profusely to the other rider, and if all seems relatively well, I'll leave it to them to discuss the situation. After doing this for a few years, most of time I can tell the difference between incidental contact / slight boneheaded move / large boneheaded move / dangerous behaviour with no regard for others. It is this last category that would probably get someone ejected. Hell, I've been yelled at and threatened by customers because I chalk something up as incidental contact, yet they feel the other rider is at fault and want me to take action, and I don't, because my conclusion is that it was incidental contact or that each rider is partially at fault. Again, I work very hard to assess the situation for what it is and respond appropriately. I also try to emphasize, right from the rider's meeting in the morning and all throughout the day - these types of things should not be happening anyway - it's just a trackday. t
You're probably right now that I think of it. For some reason I thought Hector was with MCRA, but I don't think that's true. That's definitely where the confusion started because they did parts of the event and MCRA did other parts and they didn't communicate well with each other. Being new at the track and having signed up for the MCRA school, whenever I had a question (such as where is tech inspection?) I asked MCRA guys and I got like 3 different answers. Nobody seemed to know what was going on.
Thanks for the clarification. That makes more sense now. Your guys' efforts are appreciated! The only problem I have with STT is that I'm too far away from the tracks you go to!
Hector was in charge of track day operations and MCRA was in charge of racing when I went there (HPT) last year. The day went fine and Hector is a good guy. I hope HPT gets straightened out so I can ride there again, I really liked the track.
Track is fine aside from going over Alpha into T1...that's always a bit sketchy, especially if riders are going on track at the same time. It's probably the most critical spot from all the tracks I've been to for people to not cross over the blend line. What day were you there last year? I was there for the September even (like first or second weekend of Sept). I think HPT will be releasing their schedule soon. There will definitely be some bike track days going on from what I've heard.
If it was the MCRA date in September 2014 then we were there together. Was my second track day weekend and my first with the 2013 zx6r. MCRA had a date scheduled this year but was cancelled. I haven't heard anything about it but MCRA doesn't have it on their 2016 schedule. I'd like to ride that track again but would rather do it with another org so let me know if they're doing any mc track days in 2016.
Interesting and amusing thread. First the non-trouble making comment I have never been 'touched' at a track day OR race (maybe because I am slow) it can happen racing but is not that necessary. Now dirt tracking it was common to come in with tread marks on leathers or bike. Second the trouble causing one. I saw a lot of who it at 'fault' and 'can I' comments. In the end it is like a saying we had growing up 'the superior vehicle ALWAYS has the right of way' You see we had gravel trains in the area and even if you were right it was going on your tombstone if one hit you. Same with track riding. Like is said frequently if you are wondering if it is a safe pass it isn't. If the rider in front is acting squirrely on lines expect him to act like a squirrel. If the closing velocity gets to high back off a small bit (don't check up). In other words right or wrong does not matter if you are sliding on your butt. If you can take an action to lower that chance do so. I have complained one time in years. Have I seen squirrel moves more than once? Umm yeah. It used to be common in the fall for people to come south out of the tundra and while they were decent riders they did not know Barber. Day one lines started out horrible and cleaned up as it went. By the end of the day they were fine and on Sunday may even be fast. You could spot them and adjust. So who was the one time? Riding advanced and came up on him 3 times with him almost putting me into the grass with erratic changes. I eventually hot pitted as it was not worth the risk. Mentioned it at pit out with the bike description. Next time out he was sent out with a control rider then put down into Intermediate (where he belonged). No harm and everyone was fine but IMO it would not have been that way had he stayed in "A" thus I complained. But again in the end not getting taken out because you thought ahead is far better than being 'right'. Flame on
No flame from me, I agree. I have no problems hot pitting to let the track marshal know when I see erratic or irresponsible riders (not respecting the rules) even if they haven't done anything to me. It doesn't do any good to report something at the end of the session, it should be done asap for the safety of all. I'll probably get the flame for that, lol!
Truer words could not be spoken...its just a trackday. I do have two things to add. Quite a few seem to hold the opinion that "shit happens". Unless you are struck by lightning on a clear day at Barber or have a catastrophic tire failure on the back straight at Road A like Matt Mladin then shit does not "just" happen. All we are doing here is physics, kinetic energy...faster, slower and various degrees of sideways combined with judging friction, speed, distance and time and its all directly controllable by you. I realize you cant read the other guys mind so you could get caught up in someone elses mistake and that is why i would love to see all trackday providers go to passing on the straight only in novice, passing on the outside only in intermediate and inside or outside in advanced.
To be fair, I think certain levels of boneheadedness can deserve getting ejected. I've done a few stupid things on the track (that shall not be specified) where if it had gone a bit differently and I bumped someone, I would have completely understood getting kicked out for the day. But instead I got lucky, learned from it, and ensured I would never, EVER do it again. Either way, this is the sort of policy where it depends on the situation and judgement, so it's REALLY hard to make some sort of hard written policy. I just trust the organizers to use their best judgement since they have never done anything to warrant me not trusting them.
Why is everybody getting so hung up on who gets ejected and who doesn't. 1. It's staff's decision, not ours. 2. It's staff's decision, not ours. 3. Forcing people to leave the property is not something to be taken lightly. Just my opinion.
That's what I was trying to get at, maybe I worded it poorly. I was trying to just say "it depends" and the staff makes the call. There's no sense in making some hard line in the sand with what's happening. If you don't trust staff to manage an event properly and make the right call then what the hell are you doing riding there. I just couldn't resist the chance to make fun of the occasional idiocy of my past self.
I'll be straight out and say that this subject is something that has dominated my thoughts all through the decision process to even get started. I have only the one bike and have been (strongly) advised to not put it out there but rather, get a dedicated track bike that is more "sacrificial". The last thing in the world I want is to get taken out by someone looking to "prove" something in a Novice Group track day session, as if there are race team managers or magazine HR guys out there looking for their next contracted rider. I get it, there are risks. There are risks in going fast on the public roads, and that's what I am looking to eliminate, but it would suck seriously to take the proper steps to eliminate the first set of risks only to be caught out when all you're trying to do is get acclimated to the whole track day process. Am I correct in my thinking that those of us who are completely new to the process are segregated to our own group for a minimum amount of time where we can at least get a feel for the new circumstance and situation? I not just thinking of my own safety, but what my lack of experience track wise might inadvertently bring about.
As a beginner, you will obviously be in the novice group, which is broken up into about 5 sub groups that go from absolute noobs to experienced street riders. A coach will observe and help you with any questions you have and with suggestions based on your performance. You will never be expected to ride above your comfort level or below your ability. It's all about having fun and being safe.