Best tire at lean angle?>?

I have been told by a lot of guys that I have a lot of lean angle when I ride. Which tire has the most contact patch at high lean angles?

 

This is awesome, where is Jig

 

Why? Am I about to be slammed?

As this is my first year riding I know there are a lot things I need to work on.......and more than happy to hear advise from anyone who has seen me ride. Lean angle is just a small piece of the ability needed to navigate a corner and I know that.

I am just looking for the tire that gives me the best chance of keeping the bike under me if I'm really cranked over in a turn.

 

Disagree... Radical lean angles at below MotoGP qualifying pace doesnt always transfer to efficient movement and forward motion.

In fact, quite the opposite. I would be willing to bet that your "killer lean angle" is, in large part, due to tossing the bike into a corner and hoping the front tire will make up for other areas that could be improved. The key to getting thru a corner is getting the bike turned, the throttle back on, then getting the bike back onto the larger contact patch and getting fully on the gas.

This lean angle is compensating for either "charging the corner" and dumping it in, or taking a poor line that causes the need for more lean to make up for lack of run out and need to complete the turn or not being on the gas at the apex and being ready to power out.

You will find that, for the most part, taking a proper line and carrying speed into the corner and being on the gas earlier (instead of coasting thru a corner then gassing it) will actually REDUCE your lean angle and allow for MORE corner speed at entry and faster return to full throttle on the way out.

Your way, in short, is putting a TON of work on the front tire and that will only last for so long. Please dont take this as insulting, but you dont need better tires... you need better skills. Next time out, grab a coach and work with them.. seriously we love to do it.. I am willing to bet they will say the same thing.

Continuing your way will only end in a yardsale at some point. And simply getting "better tires" and relying on that without enhancing the skills will only result in a BIGGER yard sale.

Hopefully this makes sense.

 

or he's just awesome.

 

in all honesty....post up your best laptimes at different tracks (only verified with laptimer...not guesses) and maybe a head on picture of you in a corner.

that will give us a lot more info.

maybe he's just awesome, guys.

 

like this guy??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYws8biwOYc




in seriousness.. yes, a shot of you in a corner, w/ lap times will be helpful. You said it was your first year... what group do you ride in? Bike?

 

from his previous posts, he started trackdays this year in novice and moved to intermediate a couple trackdays later and ended in advance. all on a black (the color that leans the most) gsxr1000

 

Only looking for help here guys..... 31yrs old with two kids and a life. Hope I'm not sounding like a squid!

First track day was Road America. Got bump to I at end of day. Ran 1:39

Second track day was Blackhawk Farms three weeks later. Got bumped to Advanced at end of day.

Ran 1:17.8

Third Day was back at Road America and ran 1:36

Ran Road Atlanta where I met Geoff May! Can't remember my times. I think 1:36

Ran Barber last week and managed a 1:38.0

 

Hey Jig be nice....I bought some photos from you at Grattan! I was the guy that low-sided in turn 4 and you got the sequence on me sliding into the grass

 

Only joking around.. not trying to beat you up.

In all seriousness.. at grattan, what group, what times? Its been a while for me at RA, RA or Barber so i cant recall what I ran there in comparison.

You lowsided in T4? how'd that happen? Asking too much of the front in a corner? Oil? You may be supporting my theory w/ the lowside..

 

Ran Advanced but don't recall my times. I have gone over that turn 100 times in my head and I can't remember what happen. I remember finally carrying a good line though that damn off camber turn three. I was looking a head to the small straight and next thing I know I'm on my ass.

I don't remember hitting the brakes but I must have. I carried really good speed through turn three and probably came up on 4 too fast

 

To add to stickboy's post and based on your previous posts, my bet is you're not getting of the bike enough.

if you're dragging a knee and a toe, i repeat, you're not getting of the bike enough.

step back a notch and work on the basics.

we have seen A LOT of students like you before. being fearless is nice, but good skills and judgment, and most importantly, experience is better.

to answer your question,

none of the really fast guys running 8s and 9s at Blackhawk ask for a tire with greater contact patch. Your DOTs will have all the contact patch you need, if you get off the bike enough and try to keep your bike upright, so you can get on the gas earlier.

also, from your other tire thread, your tire looks brand new. most of us have ridden power race until it has no thread and looks like a slick.

find a coach and get help!! that's what we're there for!!

good luck!

 

Those times at Road A and Barber mean you're going at a pretty good clip.

It's hard to understand what you're up to without being on track with you, but the above comments from Justin are right on. It's terribly hard to do when you're on track. You've got to remember that the big 1000's don't need a bunch of mid-corner speed (and thus lean angle). You can "point and shoot" and be as fast or faster.

Grabbing an instructor would be first choice. They can work with you to use the braking markers to get you to brake later and deeper into the corners to reduce your mid-corner speed. This gets you turned and back on the throttle earlier before the apex so that you're faster out of the corner and down the next straight. This technique requires a ton of mental patience!

-Tom

 

Thanks all for the advise. I will definitely grab a coach next year and see what I can do.

When I was at Grattan I was really hanging off the bike coming into both the front and back straight. It feels sometimes like I'm going to fall off and have very little control if it's choppy.

 

1'39 and then 1'36 at road america is incredible.....F1 pace. unless, of course you mean 2'36 that's actually pretty damn good. i think i'm doing 2'31 there on an '05 r6 and still feel pretty tentative there having only been there twice. pretty sure i'd be able to do that or within a second or two of 2'31 on street tires on the r6. so no worries about the tires holding you back on a 1000 there.

1'17 at blackhawk is really good. i've only run there a couple sessions the one weekend i was there and that's all i was doing was mid 17's i think. but again....that is so far below the race pace of 10's or 9's or even 8's...that i'm sure the pilot powers would have no problem at that pace.

I've never run road atlanta, but 1'36 would put you at or near the front of the novice wera racers. since that was a guess by you...i'm guessing you guessed too fast. because that would be proportionally way faster than you were at the other tracks. i'd guess mid to low 1'40's was probably more like it.

the 1'38 at Barber is a good comparison, though...because i have only been there once and instructed on my stock '03 FZ1 with pirelli diablo corsas (their street/trackday compound at the time) and ran high 38/low 39's. so that's a good indication of what a good street tire is capable of. the tires weren't sliding a bit because, of course you all realize, i never slide my tires.

from your form, it looks like there's nothing glaring...but my guess is that you're one of those guys that carries more corner speed than you know what to do with. this happens a lot on guys that have a lot of confidence but maybe don't have good feedback on what the bike is doing under them. they are the guys that brake too early...but are always scaring the bejeesus out of me when i follow them into turns. because the number one crash they experience? you guessed it...the inexplicable midcorner lowside.

i never know what to do with those guys. their corner speed is proportionally higher than their pace everywhere else. all i can say is quit focusing on your corner speed. it's probably fine. just keep it where it is and focus on later braking, and early gas on corner exit. let those other elements of track pace catch up to your corner speed. once they've caught up you can maybe focus on better feel by keeping your elbow out and your hands loose and feel the front of the bike better and know when you're at the limit.

now quit worrying about your tires and get with coaches AT THE TRACK who can make REAL evaluations rather than all this armchair bullshit that i just fed you.

 

I thank you and a lot of your points ring true. I am still new but feel I can be a lot smoother and faster. I'm not jerky or anything and I think my lines are decent.....I just know my brake markers and timing are not the best and I am definitely easy getting back on the throttle. (Watched a lot of highside videos!)

I was always hesitant to ask for a coach in the A group. I figured that was the time for the coaches to have there own fun so I didn't want to bother.

 

NO WAY DUDE!! WE ARE THERE TO HELP!!!! Regardless of group, regardless of skill.. We are all working! If we have a vest on, we are assigned to that group and are there for you. Don't ever be concerned with asking us!!

The difference in Adv. group is that we need you to come to us unless we see some thing glaring and unsafe. Its not a statement of inability, rather, a willingness to get better!

I look forward to meeting you next season.. if it EVER gets here!!

 

I'm lookin forward to it! What bike do you ride?

 

Im just on a little bike.. a light blue 08 R6 #628.