My question is to people who have tracked KIBS equipped bikes... Is it worth it? I'm in the midst of bike shopping for next year since now is the time to score a great deal, and the bike currently at the top of my list is a 2013+ ZX-6R. They are offered with and without ABS. Dealers generally want about $1,000 more for ABS bikes and they're way harder to find on the used market, so there's a definite premium for them, but if the ABS saves me from ending up on my head even once, it will have likely more than paid for itself. The idea of having a magical gnome living in my motorcycle waiting to save my ass when I do something dumb gives me warm fuzzies, but I know ABS is still kind of a new thing to track oriented bikes and not all ABS systems are created equal. I'm probably in the 50th percentile of riding talent and not crashing is a higher priority to me than being fast, so I don't mind forking over some extra coin for more peace of mind, but I would be super upset if I spent all that money and found it intrusive enough to make me pull the fuse after one session on track. As an aside, how the hell do you get a test ride on a Kawasaki these days?
I have the 2013 zx6r sans ABS. It does have the traction control, power cut and slipper clutch and I have found it to be useful. I can only say that I was not interested in ABS but given how well the other electronics worked, I'd go for it if the price is right.
ABS was designed for street motorcycles to provide greater stopping ability in the wet I don't think you need it on the track. There must be a reason why many racers or trackday junkies take it off from their bikes
sammPD - why did you take it off? If there were downsides can you tell us what you found them to be? thanks
ABS saved my butt last weekend at ACC when another rider hit my back wheel and I went off track to the grass area, was able to apply front and rear brake and avoid hitting the rail guard. I was able to slow down enough to manouver myself out of trouble. Unless you are an expert racer looking for a fraction of a second gain each lap I would say go with a bike with ABS and TC on it. For track days for me at least its just a little bit extra insurance and for most of the time you wont even know you have ABS on your bike.
Really? I rode my ZX10 until the weather consistently stayed in the 20s. The whole reason I bought it was the extra piece of mind with traction control and ABS. Hell, If I ever retire my track bike and convert this one, I'm leaving the rear ABS intact for my offload excursions!
Not really needed on the track. After all in pro racing, they're not even allowed to have them, so it goes to show. Most people that I know of that track or race their bikes, have taken the ABS off their bikes if they came with it. That's designed mostly for the street and riding in a variety of weather conditions. Although it might come in handy to have if you go off track and you're on wet grass or a bit of mud. Even then it's kind of a hit and miss. If it was me, and I had the choice to save 1000 bucks, I would go for the non-ABS. If you get one with ABS for about the same price, then might as well keep it. Won't really hurt you to have it. I've heard a few minor negative things about ABS on track bikes from guys that are pretty fast, but don't know the details so not really sure what the complaints were....has to do with the "feel" of the front end under hard braking.
i dont like the thought of the bike doing something i didnt have any input on, i dont ride in incliment weather and i know abs is mainly for those conditions but the off chance it kicks on when it thinks the wheel might lock it up i dont like that idea, i know its more sophisticated than that but ive never had an abs bike the ninja just happened to have it and i got a good deal on it at the dealership new so i went with it but like i said i dont like the bike having a mind of its own if i may put it that way, i want it to do what i tell it and nothing different, my TC and ABS is in my right hand and foot ... always has been .. mainly cause i cant afford one of those fancy italian bikes
I like ABS on track day bikes for a few reasons. If you go in the Grass it helps, if your cut off it helps, if you screw up it helps... Now if your racing then its most likely a different story. I can turn mine off but it doesn't take away the mushy feel.
Wow, I didn't realize this thread was still going. I ended up taking a technological leap of faith and bought an ABS bike. I'm not fast. I'm not a racer. My reflexes have been tested by a locked up front tire three times, and two of those times I ended up on the ground. The KIBS system has gotten pretty good reviews from everything I've read on it and I doubt Kawasaki would put a non-defeatable ABS system on a supersport if it wasn't a good one. I'll find out in the spring, but I expect to brake harder and later this year now that I won't have that tinge of doubt in the back of my mind telling me I might crash if I pull the lever any harder. I was thinking about it, and it might even be a game changer when it comes to trailbraking, now that someone of my modest talent can start bringing the rear brake into play without ending up on my head.
You locked up the front on the track by braking too hard?? I assume you were leaned over into a turn, right? IMO braking harder is not the solution to going faster at our level. I used to be a very hard braker. I'd brake so hard that the rear wheel would be fishtailing going into turns or in some cases even lift off the ground. I thought I was at the limits and outbraking people...then they would all pass me around the outside once we actually got to the turn. Aside from pro racers, most of us average joes end up going slower when braking harder because you shave off TOO MUCH speed. The key to going faster when you're a novice, intermediate, and even advanced track day rider is to do the exact opposite. Brake less and earlier at first. Then you start pushing your braking point a bit further, but without braking any harder. You have to gradually get used to going faster into the turns, and it's a hell of a lot easier when you do that in a smooth fashion rather than the more aggressive "smash on the brakes at the end of the straight, ass end in the air and tip it in the turn"...like the Pedrosa video I posted on the other thread about braking pressure.
I have to agree about braking harder. One comment I've heard from hard braking guys is that the ABS activated and lengthened their braking. That would be quite unsettling, but as you said should we really be braking that hard?
No, all my lockups were when my front tire found loose stuff on the ground while I was already braking, twice on the street, once on the track when I waaaaay overcomitted to a pass and ended up out in the marbles. I consider myself to be way softer on the brakes than I could be, and I think a big part of that is knowing the bike will fall over when the front tire stops turning, and there's about a 2 in 3 chance I won't be quick enough to save it. logically, I know the back tire should come off the ground before that happens, but it's still a nagging thought I have in every hard braking zone. Long story short, the coaches all say that confidence is the one of the most crucial assets to have for improvement, and I think a good ABS system will give me more of that at this stage in my riding.
That's true. Confidence is 90% of going fast. Something most of us struggle with. I might've made up that percentage, but the point is it's a lot!
I have the 2013 zx6r sans ABS. I bought this bike specifically for track riding and did not want ABS but was keen about having traction control and power cut options on the electronics. The traction control and power cut option proved to come in handy on rain days but that's the only time I set it all the way on. In dry conditions, I have the power set full and traction control on 1 which is default when you turn the bike on. I felt it work a couple times in dry conditions but not sure that it was needed to avoid loosing the rear end. Toward the end of last season I was turning it off and putting faith in my right hand because I had decided to buy a track only machine and sell the zx6r. I can honestly say that it's really nice to have in wet conditions! Saved my ass a few times for sure and I'm sure that if I would have had the ABS, I would have also used that for wet conditions but probably not in dry. Why? I guess I'm just old school but I don't like ABS on my car let alone a bike, lol! I know it works better and faster than my conceived ability but I don't like the feeling of disconnect, just my opinion. I'm gonna be selling my zx6r, interested?
Paul how much are you selling the 636 for? I know you had it up months ago, but I don't remember...and now I'm in the market for another bike, and looking mostly at 600s.
I bought this bike in August 2014 as a brand new, leftover stock sale deal for $9500. It currently has 7035 miles on it. I broke it in properly (first service at 650 miles) before taking it to the track. I have changed the oil with Mobile 1 (motorcycle 4t) full synthetic every 2500 miles with a new K&N filter. Has never been dropped and the only visible wear is from my boots rubbing against it. It is 100% stock, no mods. Always run with premium pump gas. While it has been used primarily as a track bike, I started out in novice, got the bump to intermediate and at the end of 2015 rode it twice in Advanced. I'm not a racer and it has not been flogged, just ridden as fast as I feel comfortable with. Current Blue Book is $7260 in my zip code. My original plan is to put on a new set of tires (B-Stone S-20 Evo's), clean it and touch up the wear so it looks showroom new and put it up for $7000 but will sell as is with track used Dunlop Q-3's that have a couple track days left in them for $6500. I will also include a set of Cycle Gear SpeedMetal aluminum stands with matching green wheels. The only thing that this bike needs is a new is a new clutch actuation shaft seat as it has started to weep a bit.
This is an old thread, but I figured I'd update it for people that may be facing the same dilemma now that I've bought and tracked the bike. I love the ABS. It works exactly as you'd want it to, which is to say you don't know it's there until you need it. I've done three track days with it so far, and was hard enough on the brakes at Road America to boil Motul without feeling the ABS once. The only time I've felt it engage on track was at Putnam when I used a bit of a panic grab on the lever as I was passing a pair of bikes between 7 and 8, and the rear bike jumped into my line to pass the bike in front of him. Maybe nothing would've happened. Maybe the ABS system already paid for itself, who knows. Brake feel isn't spectacular, but it's good enough, and I still have rubber lines on the front. The only real negative I've found is when the lever goes soft it doesn't come back after taking it easy for a few turns... You absolutely have to pit out and bleed your brakes. I don't know if the bubbles get trapped in the ABS pump or what, but I wouldn't take a ZX-6R ABS to the track without really good brake fluid and a Mityvac in your toolkit.