Am i taking this turn wrong?

If i'm slow, then what are you? :bounce:

 

slower:cry:

 

hahaha I'll agree to those terms :first:

 

:focus::focus:

:focus:

 

One more thing that I used to had problems with, don't go back on the middle of the seat. And it looks like you are fine through 6, add more speed and you'll get your perfect line. But the 3-4-5 is where you messing up big time and loosing a lot of time.

 

Well....interesting.

To clarify: losing time in 6 wasn't my main concern. Cutting someones line was.

BUT! Tons of great advice here.


Whats wrong with my 3-4-5? In some of those laps it felt pretty good. The one lap i was behind a coach who had us off the race line for the faster cats.

BUT HEY! I'm open to advice!

 

Mott, i ABSOLUTELY will try a lower gear next time. That's a great idea.

Especially now that i'm not (as)scared of the bike like i was back then.

 

Watch Jeffs line through 3 4 and into 5 and compare to yours. Getting through 5 correctly is key to a fast lap and that starts in 3

 

You didn't really cut anyone's line, as you were relatively predictable and riding your own ride through 6. It would, however, be better for you and for anyone passing you if you throttled all the way out to the outside for the exit of T6. That way, you'll be able to roll on the throttle sooner, and a passing rider will have more room to get past you right after the corner's done.

T3-4-5 are basically successive corners with little or no straights, putting a premium on your line. I don't think you're way off there, but there's definitely room to use more of the track and get closer to the apex. They're also so close that errors in these corners have a ripple effect, messing up your plan for the later turns in this cluster.

I personally like to mentally work backwards from the exit of T5 - where do I need to apex T5 to get the best drive out of it? To do that, where do I have to turn into T5? To do that, how should my line be coming out of T4? You get what I'm saying.

I'd actually argue that the little straight between T4 and T5 has some of the widest variances of peoples' lines of anywhere on this track, even at the Advanced level. Some people hug the left side of the track or swoop to the left before turning into 5, and some people ride straight down the middle, like they're making a nearly straight line between the apexes of T4 and T5. Faster guys can confirm or deny, but I think the left-side line is the slower one here.

 

I've got a friend just starting out in the same boat as you skill wise, too; you can't conquer everything at once so it needs to be taken gradually. Once you feel the bike wanting to use more of the track by giving it throttle then you'll understand the dynamics of setting up for corners ahead and such. 3, 4, & 5 are all about that, just pure throttle input.

Lets be honest, I would say you aren't to the point of lap times being very important and shaving speed shouldn't be a priority for a beginner. You have your lines down, you know what you want to do; now understand how the bike wants to react. Motorcycles want to understeer inherently, or go straight, so you'll feel it want to pull wide when you crack it open more. Once you feel that, then you'll know how to set up your body positioning to correct your lines, how your suspension is reacting to the engine loads (and correcting it accordingly), then understanding braking points, etc.

 

Agreed, it's a really dynamic area. I run wide out of T4 and cut to the middle before T5, make an early apex and cut real wide to the outer rumble strips. But I've seen it taken so many different ways as well. Really interesting to watch peoples footage through there.

 

Indeed, the only time i pay attention to lap times is to check and see if the things i AM concentrating on are making me faster even though i dont feel it.

Example, my second track day (on 650r) i felt like my pants were on fire i was going so fast.
Turns out I wasn't. The problem of suspension, poor body position, and not looking far enough ahead made me FEEL like i was really cooking, but the times were slower (by 4-5 seconds/lap) than they were on my third day after some coaching from Chris H.
BUT i felt slower on my 3rd day. Mainly because i was looking up more and getting better control of the bike.

I know on this afternoon (in the video) i was concentrating on my feet -as poor positioning had led me to develop bad cramps in my legs-, and looking up more.


I can absolutely see how carrying MORE speed would have "smoothed" out my lines a bit. Dropping a gear is a good tip and one that was echo'd by Jason Pridmore while I was talking to him at the Motorcycle Show 2 weeks back. I just didn't put the two together.

If i posted a full few laps would anyone be interested to continue the conversation?

I ask because one thing Hipple (Hibble? Crap i forgot again...) had mentioned to me after my last session was:

*knocks on my helmet*
"Its all up here man. You're doing better. Body position is improving. You hit some apexes and missed others, but really...its all in your head. You can go faster and lean more, just be more confident. You can do this."

So i'm anxious to figure out how to start putting all of this together this year.

 

More seat time and listening to people like hipple
Do the novice drills, and once you get the bump to I, go to the optional class with K3 or whoever happens to be teaching that weekend

 

I dont agree. When you get through 3 and 4 correctly and carry a fast pace (under 1:08 for sure) you can't get over to the left side before 5. I know it sems wrong but I find myself near right side of the track exiting 4 and theres no time to swoop over for 5. $.02

watch my like through 4/5 here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHind6uTmP4

 

Yeah, the fastest guys take the straight line, because you pretty much have to shut down your T4 momentum if you want to get back over to the left. Also, because visibility is a little tricky, it's really easy to underestimate the amount of runoff you have on the exit of T5 - you don't need to late apex this one to get a big drive out. Hence, the fastest line is the straight/right-side one that you run.

So... "Advanced" Advanced group will do that, but I still see a surprisingly high amount of "Novice" Advanced guys still swooping back to the left, despite being overall A-pace riders. That's always something I've noticed about that corner in particular, because A/I guys in most corners largely run somewhat similar lines.

 

Wow, so I'm pretty late on this one. Not sure if you're going to still see it
But..

I think your line is nice through that corner, you definitely are disciplined about hitting that apex. I think the two biggest things you might want to consider are using more of the track on the entry, and don't be afraid to really pick up the throttle on your exit. That is a massive exit corner, meaning you can (and you DID) get the bike pointed nice and early. picking up the throttle in an exit corner as early as you safely can, will get you a beautiful drive. It will also open up your exit, allowing you to use more track on the exit (see above).



Just a quick edit, this comes from Freddie Spencer and I feel it's quite relevant.
I'm not saying to go out and do this right away, but for me it's sort of the longterm "end goal".

Paraphrased by Nick Ienatsch from FasterSafer 2014:
" This is what Freddie shared with us: Freddie wants to get the bike pointed so well that if he held his line he would hit the inside curb. He essentially over-turns so that the only way he doesn't run off track is by standing the bike up and using much more initial throttle (earlier). "

 

3-4-5 is BY FAR the most important part of that track, hitting it right is 1-3 SECONDS not tenths SECONDS the tiny straight you're talking about will be a middle to right side entry, if you are on the left you forced yourself over there or you are somewhere in the middle of the teens to the 20's or you just had a crap lap or maybe getting off track.

Jeff turn 3 is a tricky one to get right and i still mess it up if I make a mistake, if you turn in too late (which you did) it pushes you out too far to the left, there is a divet that will shake your brain, when you are too far to the left you have to turn in too soon on turn 4 and it pushes you out wide and then you have to readjust your line or let off so you don't hit the grass, screwing that up kills your drive to turn 5 and this is what makes ppl want to swoop out for 5 so they can try to correct it. I really wish ACC would let us walk the track but they don't, next time you see me bring a track map and I'll help ya out

+1 furthest I can usually get on a good lap is middle, anything more than that I'm either setting up something or I'm in a gaggle lol. I saved the gpx data from the 1:05 lap and compared it to a 1:07 lap and I ditch myself in 3-4-5 by getting that right.

 

Exactly :cheer: At the last ACC north I attended, I came up on a white 675 in Advanced. I followed him a few corners and watched him "over finish on exit". I decided not to pass him so I could exit the track with him to let him know, but before we could exit, he did the exact thing on exit of 4 to swoop out to the outside of the track to set up for 5 and pushed the front causing a low side crash. I have it somewhere on video.

 

^Post that shit!! lol

I stay towards the middle unless I am squaring off a slower rider to get more drive and pass them; then I may go a bit more towards the outside.

 

So i guess the good news is, one turn i thought i was doing wrong, i'm actually ok at, but the 3 turns i thought i was doing right i have to fix.


I guess thats....progress? lol :lmao: