Discussion aboout headphones on-track & now..Trail Braki

Sarcasm? Me? Perish the thought.



I'm not out to school anyone. Lord knows there are plenty who could school me on any given day. But I do enjoy teaching those who feel they can learn something.

 

[quote="racerk3There's a limit to how loud I want a bike to be, and these sawed-off MotoGP replica mufflers exceed that, as do unmuffled Buells.[/quote]



Buells need loud pipes to cover-up all the valvetrain racket. :lol:

 

still can't tell. :wink:

mixed messages? :?



i like an instructor role as well. the rewards, regardless of free track time and/or pay, give a certain satisfaction. particularly, when the lightbulb goes off in the student's brain. i can think of no better reward. alas, those positions are few and far between.

as far as learning goes, i'd hope everyone could learn. if not, wouldn't that mean they knew everything? :lol:



back to the 'sound' argument...(the "you" is plural).

rossi put the pipe back on his bike tho i can't recall if it was for his mental benefit or the ability to hear the other bikes.

i don't think being able to hear others is a benefit for most riders. some of the ones i've come up on start to freak a little. feeling as if they were being hounded, they invariably make a mistake. it might be about experience. the lesser riders seem to suffer more than the seasoned.

me? well, if you're behind me making a whole lot of racket, just go ahead and pass. i'm not changing my line tho...that's your job as the passer. besides, if you're behind me it's because you're faster. if you can't make the pass, maybe you have too much racket going on in your own mind?

pipes that sound cool but do nothing for the performance of the motor aren't doing anything for your head either. the quieter your pipe, the quieter your riding. imo.

which brings us back to 'alternate aural stimulation'. whether that be music or white noise, it doesn't or hasn't, in my experience, detracted from my ability to 'hear' what's going on. when k3 mentioned " what things are going to sound like if you do a corner correctly", i thought there was going to be some sort of enlightening epiphany. maybe a distinct and unmistakeable sound from the tires twisting and shearing on the pavement. no. he was simply referring to the natural and common progression of engine noises. how disappointing. for those not familiar with it, yes, i understand the need to demonstrate. for those who take it as par for the course(no pun intended) i was hoping for something more. like, what do your pads sound like when they're really digging in to the disc. not worn and clapped out crap - good, serviceable hardware. have you ever listened? i'm sure most of you have heard it but, are you listening for it to determne that you've reached 'the limit'. i say emphatically, NO. you're feeling it. it's all about feel. sure you've heard the tire starting to howl but, are you hitting your brakes 'til the tire howls to know you've reached the limit? again i say no. someone tell me, truthfully, that's how they ride.

so, i could go on and on about why hearing isn't a necessity to riding competently just as i could elaborate on why it's important. however, i'm arguing a point...moot now that monte has made a ruling...and that point is...listening to music, well not really listening to it so much as playing it in the background, is NOT a distraction...for some.

 

Sorry to have disappointed you. Seems like you might be in an elite class of riders beyond my frame of reference. Most of us mere mortals need to see, hear and feel what's going on when we're out there.

I surrender. It's clear I'm not worthy. But now that I've conceided, help me out with one bit of info. When you're too busy to watch the tach out there in traffic with your stock muffler, white noise generator, and New Age MP3 of flowing streams and wind chimes, how do you know when to shift? Can your carefully calibrated manhood discern between 13,500 rpm and 14K when it's pressed against a motorcycle gas tank? Or are you (GASP) actually LISTENING to your motorcycle?



Answer or don't. I'm done with this pissing match. Leave your address at the gate so we'll know where to send the trophy.



(OK, that last bit may have been lightly tinged with sarcasm....)

 

now that is sarcasm.

it's too bad you resort to it...confirms limitations on your part...don't understand why people can't face themselves or the truth or other people and deal with it as an intelligent being. clearly the argument for music has spawned an outcry that had to be quelled by monte. too bad he had to keep y'all from yourselves...apparently, you're not smart enough to do it alone.

 

you, the one that proclaimed stt's first flame war, are wimping out?

wuss.

 

Wayne's world WE'RE NOT WORTHY just popped up in my head!! I just thought I would lighten up the mood that's all. :wink:

 

it's over. he conceded. funny, i thought it was a dialogue of thoughts 'til he got sarcastic. i don't deal with sarcasm any more than i deal with ignorance. yet, he folds? took his ball and went home.

 

Adapting an air of smug superiority does not in any way add credibility to your argument. You've driven an indefensable point into the ground with such arrogance that I no longer choose to engage in the debate. I know when I'm being baited, and I've already given you more of a reaction than you deserve.

I began in this thread with the best intent by offering my insight as a coach and racer. Immediatly you decided to start poking me with a stick. Rather than reply with, um.... vigor, I chose to keep it light, with a bit of cleverness and wit. But clearly you smell blood in the water and hope to push me to that next level. In that, you most certainly will be dissapointed. You go ahead and listen to music while you pilot your machine. Rather than argue with me about it, take your case to all the professional racers and combat pilots who's performance you could be improving if they'd just come around to your way of thinking. It takes a brave man to tell the overwhelming majority of top performers in their field that you know better than they, but I suspect you're up to the task.

Call it towing the corporate line, call it being a wuss, or call it whatever. I can see that from a professional standpoint, it's time to cut my losses and abandon this argument.

 

Actually, I've chosen not to deal with you. Keep the ball. I have balls to spare.

 

when did i adopt this 'air' you speak of? i think you're just trying to rationalize your retreat.

how did i bait you?

i believe you're saying you chose 'to keep it light' because it is your ground that is indefenseable(sp?)

you throw things out there like fighter pilots, pro racers, whatever and assume i'm speaking for them. no where did i, nor would i, speak for anyone but myself. as such, my comments are based on my experience. you and the other naysayers seem to be talking from an experience you do not have...ultimately meaning, it's bs. those that say they have done it but would not do it under track circumstances at least tell their truth.

when i asked "what does it sound like?", i was sincere. i thought maybe you were aware of some nuance that had eluded me. your description of what you were talking about was very sophomoric, better suited to someone that has never ridden a motorcycle.

how did i poke you with a stick? educate me about my provocations.

from a professional standpoint? you're out of business.

...and just so we're clear, my only sarcasm was in response to your clear sarcasm. once you tasted your own medicine, you folded like a cheap set of leathers.

for all your being done with it, why are you still digging?

my stand is what it is and will not change. i am not forcing it on you or anyone else. because of you and others like you the freedom of those competent enough to practice those freedoms has been compromised. thanks a lot.

 

I think if you go back and read Monte's post you'll see he didn't give in to the ones who cried loudest. He dictated what he believes and not that of anyone else. As for your other comments in your post quoted above I could respond but apparently I'm not smart enough.

 

maybe not but surely it was prompted by the crying.



if you'd like me to respond to your intelligence, it's not gonna happen. you're bringing up a comment made in response to sarcasm. maybe you didn't see k3's post as it read before it was edited. things get out of context when timelines are distorted...i'm not going back to figure it out. besides, it was directed at him, even tho it reads in the plural.

 

OK

 

I put a second D on the word "add." How much did THAT change the meaning? My God are you a crybaby. Why don't you just shut up?

Better yet, Get a book called The Last Open Road by B.S. Levi. Check out a character called Skippy Welcher. See if he reminds you of anyone.

 

First... stop calling us Surely...... :wink:



You are incorrect, nothing in my post was "prompted by the crying".. It was prompted by my experience. I have 200,000 street miles and have never been down.... luck.. maybe a bit. Most of the reason is skill, common sense, riding below my limit for he given conditions and, this s a big one..using 100% of my available resouces of sight, sound and excellent situational awareness skills. Notice how some riders are ALWAYS in a jam... and other riders just breeze through the exact (or worse) situations with no drama... Situational awareness is a big part of that.



Have you ever stood in front of the control suite of a nuclear reactor at full rated power in a submarine 350 meters under the surface traveling at flank speed which is substantially faster than the posted speed limits on most surface streets? I have.... and we didn't listen to music to increase our awareness/reation times etc... Although I didn't get to the con (this is where the they dirve the boat) often during these situations, on the rare visit I distinctly remember the total absence of music.



Did you know the most stressful moment in a Naval Aviators career is not engaging in combat with the enemy or bein fired upon by AAA... it is a night carrier landing in poor conditions. Once again.... no music is used to help him or her with the evolution.



I use dramtic situations to make a point. The evolution of riding a high-performance motorcycle at high speeds in the track environment can (thankfully very rarely) actually require life and death decisions and reactions.



Now, with this said, if I was on a track by myself or with a couple of other riders whom I know and trust completely wanting to "enjoy" a nice relaxing pace, I'll admit music might actually add to the pleasure. YEP, I actually just said that.



Under racing/road/track day conditions my experience causes me to reach the conclusion that music is not a good idea for the vast majority of our riders. To the minority I remind you in the immortal words of Spock, that "the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few or the one"



Live long and prosper and ride too!

 

This has been a great discussion; however, I'll try not to start any more threads like this one... :roll:

 

man. i missed out. spent the weekend at deals gap with my mp3 player on....



ff and k3 sound like black turtle-neck wearin', wine sippin', past present participle understandin', lit majors. <yawn>



now that monte has set the rule...let's keep arguing about it. that'll be fun. 1,2,3,4...i declare a flame war....now someone step up.

 

Monte, With the new rule and all, does that mean my new 8 track helment is out of the question?

 

Jig, you know I prefer espresso. And how could you forget that I never wear a black turtleneck unless it's beneath a tweed sportcoat with leather patches on the elbows, topped by a black beret?