I gotta hand it to FF - perfect responses to both... OK - so I don't agree with his use of music on the track, but I do like his musical taste and I tend to agree with his riding comments so he probably isn't too bad of a guy afterall....
hmmm. maybe you could show me. or maybe all the guys i beat in open classes on '04/'05 1000cc bikes with my '01 gsxr 600 could show me. or maybe the dudes from brighton superbike on their hopped up ducs and gsxr thous that get 'outdrove' onto the front straight at grattan (on my fz1 ferchrissakes) could show me. i'm willing to learn.
Dude - no need to get all defensive... maybe isten to some music while you type ... my point was (as you have also just noted) - it is the rider's ability moreso than the bikes...
no worries. wasn't defensive. just giving examples that indicate i might know a thing or two about drive. but if you are willing to teach me something.....let's get to the track and teach me something. seriously.
i'm graciously bowing out at this moment as i have a weekend to enjoy...away from the keyboad. see ya back next week. thanks for the ride.
Wow - a 'throw down'... handbags at 5 paces? 'Seriously', you mentioned that people who pass you had 'waaaay' more motor then you come back with 'examples' about you know about drive-out - you have proven our mutual point... it's the rider more so than the bike. If you are that insecure that you need to boast about your riding prowess, go to the Gixxer forum.... And I'm sure we could all learn a thing or two from each other.... isn't that the point of a healthy discussion? 'Seriously'.... :lol: Have a great weekend everyone!
Look at it this way. If you use the closest point to the inside of the corner as the definition of the apex and you "late apex" the corner, how can you trail brake to the apex? The slowest and tightest point in the corner would be about a third of the way around and the closest point to the inside would be about two thirds of the way around. Why would you continue brakeing after you passed the slowest point in the corner?
umm. you could trailbrake until you reached the apex...no matter where in the turn it occured. i'm not sure i understand the question. late apex just means you make the apex 'late' in the corner (farther down the track) because there was a roadside stand selling tacos? i don't know.
If you do a classic late apex, the closest point in your line to the inside of the corner will be by definition in the second half of the corner. Why would you trail brake that far into the corner? Trail braking when used, is used for some part of the corner entry, not always to the apex. If it is used after the slowest part of the corner it is only to correct errors. I still believe most trailbraking is just "latebreakers" compensateing for inaccurate entry speed. I "trail brake" into the turn at the end of the back straight at Pocono for example, in reality it is because I rarely get my entry speed exactly right so I have to make adjustments. When I get the entry correct, no further brakeing is needed. Trail brakeing is useful for passing on the brakes. Just ask Pedrosa
Or, when the guy just in front of you is parting company with his bike.... I have actually trail braked past the apex in order to avoid running over debris.... as freddie teaches - you continue to trail brake until you have set the exit path (or something to that effect)... Actually no - trailbrakers might start their braking a bit later, it's actually about continuing the braking process far into the turn and providing the ability to adjust their speed throughout the entire turn - if needed... No offensive, but I get the impression that you aren't fully understanding of what trail braking actually is... Forget about correct entry speed as a stand-alone result of once & done braking.... by trail braking it allows one to smoothly reduce their speed in a controlled - consistent manner and with practice just about always results in a correct speed throughout the entire corner.... not just entry speed. I hope this makes sense. :wink:
Agree with Hank 101%... Are we really good enough to nail the apex at the correct speed every single time? NFW. Not anyone here and if you look at most AMA/WSBK/Moto=GP guys they must not be either as the vast majority cover the brakes to, or past the apex. The do it all stright up and down system means we have to guess at setting our speed and I am NOT that good. Also, when you come into a corner and you are on the brakes and then let go BOING!!!!!! the front end extends and the rake INCREASES at a moment we need it to decrease to get the bike to turn, correct? Why would you give up this measure of control (braking)? The Code style of get it done straight up ad down died bout the time radial tires showed up. I ave spoken at length on the subject with Schwantz, Spencer, Edwards, Duhamal, Yates, that fast Aussie with all the #1 plates and some others and ALL suggest and use trail braking all the time. It may only be 2% of available braking force but that's what makes a pro. Now, we at STT teach basic straight up and down in our Novice school but as the pace picks up, trail braking is a must and not to do it is, IMO even unsafe. (once again, giving up control) I never want to give ub control and cast my fate to the guessing gods when I have the absolute power to do otherwise. You will NEVER see me in a corner with out one finger minimum covering (and most likely applying some, even if it's a tiny bit) the brakes. Added.... What is a "classic late apex"? Anyone want to see the 2007 schedule???
Hank, Yes, I know what trailbraking is. Unfortuneately it has been corrupted over the years. Look up the the "circle of traction" to see what it origionally meant. It was not meant as a replacement for accurate entries. There are some that trailbrake and do it well. I still say most are useing it as crutch to overcome errors rather than eliminateing the error as much as possible in the first place. Monte, No, I don't believe we are good enough to nail the entrance or apex speed correctly every time. It is something we should strive for though, with some brakeing used as a final adjustment if needed. While I often graze the front brake for fine tuneing my entry speed I don't consider final speed adjustments trailbrakeing.