Wow guess im not too welcome at STT anymore. You want to refund our money we won't go? There are three of us. We will never do another STT date no problem. They depend on my toy hauler for transportation.
You need to be careful on the forums.. the mob turned against you on this one. It happens from time to time. Edit..... Being welcomed at our events is not an issue. Everyone is welcomed at our events unless they have proven that they should not be... Being welcomed on the forums is kind of a group thing and like I said the Mob kinda moved against you on this one. Remember its a forum, nothing life changing happens here and tomorrow no one is gonna care what happend... actually that will be later today. This should be a fun place with some ribbing and an occasional ass whooping to some poor slob.. I've been that slob, more that once IIRC. My respnse was....Adios Mo Fo (an old military term) and SYL is See Ya Later... the M is for Maybe.. You seem to be having trouble deciding on what to do hence the maybe. You have the opportunity to ride the course that you signed up for and that is the LIGHTINING course at New Jersey ThunderBolt Raceway or (NJMSP). You also have the option of canceling your day(s) and getting a refund minus the credit card processing fees or having a 100% credit on the books for a full year to use wherever you wish. Would we like you to enjoy a great day with us.. yes we would. Should you choose another option we understand. Just make a choice that makes you happy. This is fun... don't get your blood perssue up over a track day.. it's not worth it. make your choice and be happy with it, that's the best thing you can do for yourself. I'll be happy because you're happy. Fair enough?
I was never not going, I was never mad about it. I was never rude to anyone. I signed up for this way back this spring and I really think the page said thunderbolt back then as do my friends so we were surprised to learn other. As for the track last time on it was not much fun so we were disappointed too. As for online posting I normally don't let it bug me but me but when someone said I was giving you a hard time that pissed me of this time. Yea I should have let it blow by. Online posting is full of smart azzes with great big cyber balls and has to be the worst way to communicate ever in history. So I'm off to my Race this weekend and then driving to Indy. I probably won't get anymore flames until I'm back. Cheers.
I understand.....trust me. FWIW when I REALLY step on my di#k bigtime over at the WERA forum I'll send you a link. THAT place is a shark tank! LOL!!! We are in Lot 6 at Indy, stop by and say "hi" and good luck racing.. go fast!
KTD Since you are going (to me it read like you wanted to un-schedule) you should enjoy yourself more than the first time as you should be faster this time around. Lighting is faster than Thunderbolt and is a blast to ride. Lighting flows much better than Thunderbolt. A slower rider may find it less technical but when one gets going quick it becomes technical and chanllenging. A 1:15 on Lighting calculates to a 92 mph lap average, a 1:39 on Thunderbolt (with both chicanes) calculates to an 80 mph average. Thunderbolt is most definitely more busy thann Lightning. BTW I wasn't attacking you but trying to say: Go ride Lightning. Lightning turn 1 is quite challenging, deceptively fast and fun. Once up to speed many people are going to be wheelieing on corner exit there. Most or all of the corners are faster than most people think.
"Most or all of the corners are faster than most people think." Except the left just after the bridge. Be careful on that one.
Back to the original topic (because now I can see KTD's posted picture and because I just realized I copied the track day schedule from this spring AND I came across the RRW Track Day magazine from this spring). 1st, everywhere it says "New Jersey Motorsports Park (Thunderbolt Raceway) - Melleville, NJ"; in the print RRW mag, in the e-mail, on an STT Post Card I received in the post and on the original webpage, Not: Thunderbolt course. It also lists the same for Sept 1 which earlier in the year Monte informed us was off the schedule, and then it was put back. As Rich mentioned, this is very confusing and I believe part of this is because the earliest information in the press on this facility was calling it Thunderbolt Raceway, not New Jersey Motorsports Park. But, everything is clear now so no-one should be confused by now. As I said before Lighting is a fast course and rewards smoothness. Those who feel it isn't technical enough aren't going fast enough. I enjoyed both tracks and each one has quite a different character which is actually a pleasant surprise. Per the turn after the bridge (Lightning course), that is where nearly all the student incidents occurred with the CA Superbike School. I believe it is also the slowest turn on the course. Good thing is almost no-one fell. The riding corner workers whom I know crashed did so elsewhere for no apparent reason(?).
This is a ridiculous statement. But this could be expected, I guess, since you are the same guy who compared thunderbolt to pocono east.
Its true. Wait and see. and Thunderbolt feels like the east course with elevation changes; small, tight and technical. It felt smaller to me than its 2.2 miles. If we didn't run the chicanes then my opinion may be different. have a nice day.
I think when he's comparing the two, the reference is more about the combination of good flow and short, slow speed turns. Not condition, speed or length. Walt has been doing this whole 'track day' thing for quite some time. I think his opinions are quite valid, although sometimes a bit 'over technical' ;-) I believe to reach the speed that he's talking about, you'd have to think of the track with a medium straight and a VERY short straight. If you're noticing a significant third or fourth straight, and you're not reaching the speeds that he's referring to. By the way, I reached a much higher terminal speed at Lighting than at Thunderbolt. Higher average speeds overall as well.
Who doesn't reach a higher speed on the lightning track? I am not the fastest guy out there, not even close but I was doing 1:teens after my first 2 sessions and was bored by the end of the day. Everyone has there own opinion about which track is better, but to say that people who think lightning isn't technical aren't going fast enough just doesn't make sense. Especially when he might not/probably doesn't know who he is talking to. And about his claim that eventually some people will be wheelieing exiting turn 1, if anyone can exit that turn on a bike with more than 80 horsepower at full pace WITHOUT looping it, I would like to know how they are doing it because at my medium pace on a 636, I was not able to keep the front end down no matter what line I took.
Most people will not wheelie T1 on exit because they aren't opening the throttle enough to do so. Watch the Novice and intermediate groups and nearly no-one will have the front wheel in the air. The best words I can think to use to get the idea across to you is Thunderbolt feels like PIR East because its a bunch of slow speed turns connected by short straights and is busy i.e. very little time to 'rest'. Lightning feels more like Summit Point's main course, flowing and longer straights. regardless, the challenge is to get going faster. Rich understands and I believe so does everyone else reading my comments so I will waste no more time with the dego. (your own name, not my choice of words)
Gasp...the use of that derogatory word...I am... speechless....haha No hard feelings, man. I just disagree with you, that's all.
I just wanted to chime in. I don't think KTD meant to give anyone a hard time at all. There were just some discrepancies which caused a bit of confusion. He rides in the A group for all of the track clubs and has also been to both Lightning and Thunderbolt. I think he just prefers Thunderbolt over Lighting. See you guys on Oct 11th
Technical and better don't always mean the same. Shenandoah is very technical, but i wouldn't call it better than any other track. Barcelona wasn't technical at all, but by far the best track I've ever been on. In my opinion (and it's only an opinion) the faster you go (overall), the less chance you have to rest and think about what's coming up. So I guess a more accurate description is Lightning is more 'mentally' technical at a faster pace. For example, Lightning (and BeaveRun for comparison) feel much less technical on my Motard than my 675. I find both tracks easier to ride on the slower bike, cause I get a mental brake after dealing with a turn. And the straights are just plain vacations Another example is the kink before the carousel at Beaver. On the motard, I never gave that kink much though. On the 675, it was "Holly crap, I need to think about this" But are they more fun to ride on the motard? Not really. Lightning in particular was much better on the 675. More challenging, but also more fun. Beaver is more fun on the motard cause the bumps really upset the Triumph. I kept my weight on the front end and didn't have an issue. Then again, I didn't find a real need to hyper accelerate on the straight; the turn comes up pretty quickly. Don't think anyone has come close to looping it yet, and there's been some real monsters on that track. That little dip is stupid fun as well as the rise on the back straight of Thunderbolt. Feels like something a little kid would design. Probably not the best thing for a all out race, but Oultlon Park seems to do fine with one. During the GrandAm race at Thunderbolt, some of the GTA cars were getting air on the back straight at Thunderbolt. Pretty sick stuff.
Hey I actually enjoyed the track this time. Mostly due to a new Triple on my bike I went to 30 deg . I could actually turn the thing in the sweeping turns.
I have to agree. I enjoyed it as well. I think the reason I did not like it so much the first time is because I rode with a bad track day organization. Happy now, Bob?
I'm glad you had a good time.. at first i did not like the track but as i figure my way around it was fun. Riding the buells was also fun good power and low grip made for a fun ride sliding both wheels