PASSING One thing I regularly speak to I riders about is patience. If I come upon a pack that is having trouble sorting themselves, what I do not do is thrust myself into the middle and bully my way through. I wait until the situation eases before I pass. It's not like they're backmarkers and second place is gaining on me, right? If, as I'm hanging back in such a situation, some other I rider zooms past me and thrust himself into the middle, then that's the guy I'll be pulling in for a chat. Happens more often than you'd believe. You'd think that the bright orange vest would be a clue to behave, wouldn't you?
TIRES AND TECH While I see your point Dave, does there come a time when one must be responsible for one's own equipment? I think so. If you aren't spending a few minutes checking your bike's tires, oil level, chain tension, fuel level and leak-free condition at least every other session all weekend, then you're putting yourself in the hands of fate. Those who are using tire warmers are RIGHT THERE looking at their rubber after every session. They should invest a bit of attention to an actual inspection at that time. Those who don't use warmers should be inspecting their tires every session anyway. Perhaps all of us should spend some time chatting about this with our pit neighbors?
REPORTING UNSAFE RIDING A rider pulled me aside at Barber and told me about someone who needed a talking to. The perp was on "A blue Yamaha." I could get no further details, not even helmet or leather brand or color. In such a situation, a coach can do nothing about the rider's complaint, other than keep an eye peeled for blue Yamahas.
Let's get a consensus here. How many of you would feel it was fair to make any rider who fell down sit out the next two sessions? No excuses, other than crashing in spilled fluids from a previous bike.
For sure, but a second set of eyes never hurt, especially for the newbies to the game. I mean, by that rationale why tech the bikes on day one? Same logic should go for day two, IMHO.
"IMHO." HA! Dave, I value your opinion greatly. From what I've observed, you're probably the exact, middle of the road STT demographic. What you think may very well mirror popular opinion. But I still reserve the right to call you an idiot! :bounce:
"Riding within your limits" means not crashing. As staff, we have one-on-one meetings and group meetings, then people crash anyway. I pulled a guy in for a six-inch pass, literally FIVE CORNERS from a helmets-off, full group, pit lane ass chewing. Perhaps if the rules were enforced to draconian proportions, people would start following them. After all, STT staff can only do so much talking. Telling riders what to do does not control their actions. Perhaps hard discipline would penalize those who ride within the rules but for the most part, are they the ones causing the red flags?
I agree with you on this. I find it best when me, and a group of guys, get together and wait a minute or so after everyone else leaves hot pit. We can all still push each other without typically running into someone. I think a lot of guys get anxious, with me definitely being one of them, and hurry up to get out there and don't slow down. I've only ridden 4 days this year; 2 at Barber, 1 Tally, and one RA, and I haven't had the issue that others are saying, except with another organization at Barber that was the world's biggest CF that I've ever seen. I'm a former Navy guy and I like structure; which seems to be the center point of STT, and I love it. So in closing, I think it would be best to break the riders up into particular groups similar to N group. If you're fresh out of N group then maybe you should stick back and go last. This allows you two things; one, you have all the time you need and not being pushed by faster riders, and two, you're not creating a traffic jam for riders behind you; therefore, making them ancy and them getting out of control.
Were all the red flags necessary? I think STT does do a good job. 50 people is a lot in one group, but Barber is a large track. Just curious, because I didn't see every wreck. Could some sessions continue without the red flag? Were all of them needed? I was under the impression that red flags are for clearing the track. Again, I didn't see all crashes, but some looked minor to me. If the rider is clear of an impact zone and ok, then the session should go on. Just one opinion and question. All the opinions here have some validity. Does anyone have the answer? Doubt it.
Again... You can crash "riding within your limits"... My fear is that your tone is such that you are saying that the customers need to be more responsible. You are correct to a degree, but realize that your responsibility is to reinforce, educate and direct behavior so that it becomes as second nature as most of us act. Tires: We as staff should know when a tire is unsafe at the time it is inspected. An Intermediate and Novice rider isn't going to burn through and waste a tire unless they have their chassis so screwed up it kills a tire. Even so, we should be able to catch that. But it is very important to offer these suggestions and pointers at tech. Like I mentioned. I see it go unnoticed or unmentioned. I suggest chain tensions and things of the sorts regularly. Sometimes, if it is bad enough - I make them go back and adjust or I offer to help and get them sorted. It's as much the staff's responsibility as anyone. Also, there really is no call for ass chewing of any customer. None at all. It's literally uncalled for also. Yes, at times, we get passionate and want to rip heads off, but a good staff person should be able to adjust the mentality so that they can be calm and react with intelligence and get with that customer and with a stern point, tell them what could have happened and how best to do it right. What really boils my water is that we tend to forget that these folks are not track people like ourselves. They can make mistakes. Make poor judgements. Make moves that to them were ok, but in hindsight, they can understand it was not. Trust me... I've seen my fair share of mistakes. Shit, I make my own mistakes out there also. I've made plenty. But I think that we forget that we are also not anywhere near perfect. So, be kind to the customer. Be willing to offer suggestions on the side of safety. Be an ambassador to them and take them under your wing to assist them. Sometimes they can become overwhelmed...
50 is too many for barber... 2.38 miles isn't that big... Plus considering the technical nature of the track, it tends to easily get clumps of riders together... I think 50 in a group - especially intermediate is not good.
I guess by large, I was considering width more than length. Sure, the less people the better. And sure, 50 is a lot. That is certainly one variable in the equation. And those 50 line up randomly, not grouped according to skill or experience.
I tried to read through some of these posts earlier, but some really stupid suggestions are being made that I want to question why some of you think you are so perfect. Some must not even be thinking what they are typing. They need out of this sport if they think crashes are preventable. Ha, my friend at Barber was ranting all morning about crashes taking his time away - I told him to shut his mouth or he'd be the next red flag, and what do you know! Amazing how things happen. He was simply trying to LEARN and get better. He learned a valuable lesson. Hey, last time I checked, there are instructors crashing too. But is that OK? Whether it's "their" time or STT's time - it happens. There are so many scenarios that can create a rider to go down - easy stuff like OIL, antifreeze or similar, tank slappers and no brakes, poor judgment or a simple mistake, maybe a rider had to grab a handful of brake from unfolding events in front of them... so it's NOT a great idea to punish the rider and keep them off track if they can get back out there. Stupid thought. You think people WANT to crash??? These folks are learning. People who want to excel and move up the ranks push themselves beyond their skill set LEARNING. That's how you get you faster. Your words that you "would love to see crashes become more expensive for the riders" is just plain retarded. Like, you seem like the type of person who believes if a rider goes down they get what they deserve and hope that they are injured. Shut up. I don't like you. For the post that suggested a discount of some sort for no red flags - there are far too many immature people that this would not work. Instead, we'd get dumb little 5th grade acting children "well we can't get a drawing for a discount because dude over there wrecked." You are very sensible!! I love every paragraph here. I don't know you personally, but I seem to recall a post one time that you said whenever you enter a subject, it turns sour (or something along those lines); I think I witnessed that in whatever thread it was hahaha and I was on your side of the fence. Maybe it's because you think realistically and these guys don't want to hear it. I do want to stress heavily about STT instructors "ass chewing." I've seen it myself on more than one occasion against other riders and it was very uncalled for. I lost all respect for those instructors and no way would I listen to someone who treated me like that. Screw them. They are on their high horse and think they are something special. Why some instructors think it's OK and it's going to get the point across by yelling at the rider shouldn't be an instructor. I've been given words ONE time by an instructor about something I supposedly done wrong - I didn't listen because they weren't respectful. They wanted to yell at me, raising their voice. I didn't feel I did anything wrong and they couldn't even keep their story straight with what I supposedly did when I questioned. So, as stated by the poster above: "Also, there really is no call for ass chewing of any customer. None at all. It's literally uncalled for also. Yes, at times, we get passionate and want to rip heads off, but a good staff person should be able to adjust the mentality so that they can be calm and react with intelligence and get with that customer and with a stern point, tell them what could have happened and how best to do it right."
-Can the control riders do the first lap(s) at a "reasonable" pace (like a pace car) to get the tires up (closer to, i guess) temp without the pack going hog wild? -Does STT track a "regular customer" skill level wise? Obviously everyone knows I'm a noob because i prattle on about it, but can they check a data base and see that info? -If some one has an "off" is there anyone from the STT staff who comes around and talks to them about what may have happened? Both from a service standpoint ("hey man, you ok?") and a teaching stand point ("what do you think happened there?") As someone who works in "dangerous hobby" industry too for 17 years (paintball field) i can identify with STT that these kinds of "skill" problems are harder to fix than you'd think. And from working at a place where safety is a VERY serious concern, i can tell you that it is 100% absolutely for sure ok to yell at a customer if he is being such a idiotic jackass that he puts others at risk. Maybe you lose a customer over it.....but how many more would you lose if that person winds up seriously hurting someone else who did paid attention to the rules? I also wonder if I group is where the "competition"/"must get to A Group"/"No Seriously I'm Fast" mentality starts. I can tell you from way down here in Novice Group 6 that for us new riders its a lot more like "a brotherhood" than a competition. All the N riders i've talked to are very very cool and usually just so stinking excited to be at a race track that they could do 20mph and still have a sizable grin on their faces.
I had a few more nutty ideas while i was outside smoking just now... 1. In regards to breaking up I Group according to skill, what if "regular" STT customers got some type of cool ID card (or something) that they could bring to every event and get "punches/stamps/marks whatever" noting the skill level? It wouldnt fix the ENTIRE problem, but it would maybe cut it in half as it would allow the lovely ladies handing out stickers to hand out ones to break up the group. 2. I know Novice has "classroom" after every session in the morning. Should I Group do this as well? Maybe to discuss the more "advanced" ideas. IE: tire pressures, temps. etc etc. Maybe shorter than Novices, but would still drill in the idea of safety, and be a good chance for learning the finer points. Everyone is there to learn, and it would be a good forum to ask more "pointed" questions about things they are just now encountering in the I Group.