They do, atleast I've seen in done at the northern tracks. They have been doing this as well, after the first 3 morning sessions. They discussed anything from passing strategies, to the race line, ect. I've attended everyone of them each day (bonus: in the a/c!). Unfortunately, there hasn't been more than a dozen riders that showed up.
We've been running Intermediate classrooms in the Midwest for two seasons now. Attendance is voluntary, which means that some folks have sat through the class ten times and others have never come. David Grey was giving tire seminars at Barber this past event. My responsibilities were such that I missed them but I've talked with David at length on this subject and he's one of the most knowledgeable riders I've ever met.
Discipline, should it be necessary, is the job of the director. Group meetings, group meetings with helmets off in the pit lane, ect, are called by the director. Perhaps "Ass Chewing" is an inappropriate term and if so, I apologise for using it. However, when the director is addressing the group as a whole for the third time in a day, the tone is, shall we say instead, "less pleasant." Also, since I am not the director, if I pull in someone for a major infraction, I make every effort to take them straight to the director BEFORE I tell them what is on my mind. This way, there is no question later how that conversation went.
I am absolutely saying that. Absolutely. You can NEVER absolve the person holding the handlebars of responsibility. If every rider controlled his or her pace at a level which left some reserve, if every rider followed the rules as laid out at the rider's meeting and if every rider showed those around him some patience and courtesy, then crashes and red flags would be drastically reduced. Some do, some don't. Therein lies the problem.
Not saying words didn't need to be spoken. And those words were intended to be constructive. The problem, when the entire group is punished for the actions of a few, doesn't quite seem fair.
Let's be truthful. If you slip in spilled fluids, if another rider or a downed bike smashes into you, if the space you will be occupying next is suddenly filled by another motorcycle or if you get sucked into an already-occurring crash, you were not to blame. If you fall down alone and without assistance, it was your own fault. Whatever you were doing, you did it wrong and the result was a crash. This is what is meant by "riding with a reserve." You go fast and have fun, but your pace is not ten-tenths. If something happens that requires a deviation from your trajectory, you have some extra traction available to deal with it. It is a learned skill. Even racers exercise restraint. If a top racing star were at the absolute, final edge of traction at all times, the first wiggle from the bike would cause a catastrophic crash. As trackday riders, our skill level is obviously far lower than that but the concept is the same. We should ride within our limits and maintain a reserve for situations which will occur beyond our control. If we have that reserve, we have a chance of avoiding a crash as it begins to happen. Riding with reserve requires discipline. Going as fast as you possibly can feels awesome! Anything less is not the full experience. Problem is, the consequence of riding flat out is that you will surely crash on occasion. In golf, the learning curve insures that a lot of balls go in the lake. In racetrack riding, bikes end up on the ground. If a golfer decides to "get on the green in two" rather than try for the hole in one, the ball is less likely to get wet. That bit of caution, as applied to racetrack riding, is the way you get out of the weekend in one piece.
I absolutely agree with you. Being punished as a group for the actions of a few is very frustrating. Those of us with vests are right there beside you, enduring the same punishment and we don't like it either. But short of having full-track TV cameras and personnel constantly monitoring every inch, how does one catch the problem children? Coaches do what they can but in the end, there is a lot that we don't see. Also, sometimes we see things happen but can't catch the rider in question. A coach can't pursue a rules-breaker through traffic with the same level of disregard as the rider he is chasing, which means that some get away unidentified. You might have to see the same person commit several infractions throughout a day before you manage to identify and catch him. Especially if he is riding "A blue Yamaha."
Again though. Responsibility. If you fall down all by yourself, you alone are responsible. So if you fall down and cause a red flag, every other rider pays for your mistake, would a two session sit-down be too high a penalty to pay? If that were the penalty and it was strictly enforced, would riders be more careful and hold something in reserve to avoid crashing? Remember, a penalty is only too harsh if YOU are the one paying it.
The one thing mentioned so far that might actually be easily doable and also help is to ask the I riders to line up according to their personally identified pace. Faster riders at the front (or on the track side of the hot pit) and slower riders at the back (or on the outside of the hot pit). The track marshal / starter would start the inside/faster people first, and then start the others. While there will still be faster guys passing slower guys, this might help with the spacing of riders on the track and perhaps help prevent clusters of riders. I always find it interesting that you will have a 2 mile track, and have 15 or more riders clustered together in one section. Come into hot pit, and ask the Marshall for some clear track. They'll put you out in a nice, big open space, and usually the rest of your session is free of heavy congestion. Every time I've done this, it takes less than 30 seconds to be back out in clear track.
what i think most people are failing to realize is, EVERYONE WILL CRASH AT SOME POINT. on the track and on the street. wether you want to admit it or not. things happen, sometimes it is a track condition, weather, temp, mechanical or human error. no one wants to crash but, we all do. unless it is an obvious mechanical failure the rider should have caught, or a blantant riding over head, or making a really stupid decision in passing.... the rules in place are fine. retech, have a talk with the accident person or track director to make sure you are ok, and you know what caused the issue. if they dont know what caused the issue, maybe then for the next session or more, that rider should be linked with a senior instructor until it is deemed they are safe, and in the correct group. bottom line, all riders are responsible for THEIR ACTIONS ALL THE TIME. if you cant admit you make, or made an error(s), you should probably not come to the track. it isnt so much making a judgement error, as it is, how you handle the situation afterward. and if you cant take criticism or punishment for wrong doing, again... you shouldnt come to the track because, you obviously are not their to learn and advance. you are there for more selfish reasons, that do not concern your fellow group riders. and you dont have the right frame of mind to learn in that environment. we had a situation in A at barber last week where a following rider slammed (yes slammed) into another rider, witnessed by my wife. she saw parts fly off both bikes. the following rider, pushed a pass way beyond what is acceptable in racing, let alone a track day. this individual was hunted down by staff and talked to by trevor. then the rider that was hit wanted an appology (and deserved it), the rider that hit her stated " i only rubbed you, i appolgized to trevor, i have no need to say anything to you". this is the WRONG ATTITUDE TO HAVE AT ANY MOTORCYCLE EVENT, RACING OR TRACKDAY. personally if i would have had the authority, this person would have been ejected from the event for the non sportsmanlike conduct, and given a year suspension from further stt events. man (or woman) up, admit fault, appologize, learn from it, and help others learn, and be a good person. or dont show up. sorry for the book, Ski
Stt has changed in the last few years, remember they took on all of the ppl from the nesba events as well. I group is and always will be the meat grinder of the groups. Differences in talent as well as track knowledge as to how to advert a given situation is pretty different from top to bottom of the group. We, the ones behind the bars are responsible for making sure that we are safe. Hairy situations happen and that's the bi product of pushing ones limits. I've made mistakes that have pushed someone off line but you better believe I go straight to looking for that person to apologize for a second time. The things that need to change is what's between the ears and humble ourselves. Cliche statements say that we all have to go to work on Monday so have fun safely.
There are already so many rules..... 6ft passing, only passing on outside, don't pass control riders on first lap, and on and on and on. If all these rules are in place and there are still problems, why in the hell would even more rules fix it???!!!! And every advanced rider has muddled his or her way through this, and its part of what makes them an "advanced" rider. Some people commented on how much better it was to ride in advance, and that's a big reason why. I group is the meat grinder. You do your time and get out when you can. Also, most people only do 1 or 2 track days a year, so when you make a bunch of rules, you punish the few who actually do attend regularly. I once saw some numbers from nesba, which said that over 80% of people who do track days only do 1-2 a year. If that's the case with stt, then you cant fix problems with a bunch a rules for people who rarely attend. More regulations is rarely the answer, it just leads to more regulations...........
I guess I would like to throw my $.02 worth in to this discussion. I have heard the instructors say this so many times in the riders meeting that you should just focus on your lines and being smooth and it is up to the faster rider to select the best passing zone. And this is where the problem is. Too many guys refuse to slow their pace to allow a better passing zone for a slower rider. I was in the novice group last weekend at Barber on Sunday. At the end of one of the afternoon sessions, Vern pulled me aside and just talked to me about giving a little more room for my passes. At first I was upset thinking I did nothing wrong. After checking my GoPro, I did notice that I passed a couple people a little late going into the turn. When if I had just waited 2 turns, I would have passed them anyway. Thanks for the advice Vern. At Lil Tally I run in Intermediate and I noticed the same thing. We had guys trying to pass people on the outside of turns and couldn't hold it and nearly take it out 3 or 4 bikes in the process. All the rules in the world won't change the mental attitude of those that chose to do this. Maybe another solution like I think has been mentioned is to line up the group (N, I, A) by lap times. Faster guys up front. And in most cases you wont even see them again. I know that is very hard to keep track of but the disparity amongst the groups is a big problem. Again just my $.02.
this is not entirely true, and specifically not true in I. if you put the fast guys out front, let the slow guys out last, it will last for a few laps max. then the faster guys, with their "head start" will catch and pass the slowest in the group and "lap" them. then you have the slowest encountering the fastest in the group and getting passed at speeds they cant comprehend yet. this is when slower riders sense they are about to be passed, and "move over" to allow room for the faster guys, creating more issues. dont move over... just hold your line, and be predictable. faster people will find their way around you, without your help. the only thing you should be focusing on is, what is in front of you. stuff that goes on behind you, is not your concern (unless you are spinning your head, and causing issues, which happends) and then, that issue needs to be addressed and stopped. ski